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I recently joined Mike Leavitt again on his show And If Love Remains, this time to discuss how public vaccine policies systematically violate individuals’ right to informed consent.
We talk about how Dr. Paul Thomas was persecuted by the Oregon Medical Board for grounding his practice on the idea of respecting parents’ right to make their own informed choice about childhood vaccinations, how his patient data showed that his completely unvaccinated patients were the healthiest children in his practice, and how the board emergently suspended his license just days after the publication of that study.
I tell that whole story in detail in my book The War on Informed Consent, which features a Foreword by Robert F. Kennedy, Jr.
We discussed the pervasive corruption in the so-called “public health” establishment, why the claim that studies have proven that vaccines do not cause autism is false, and how government health officials brazenly lied about the effectiveness of mRNA COVID-19 vaccines to achieve their policy aim of a high vaccination rate with these experimental pharmaceutical products.
Selected Clips from the Interview
Here are a short clips highlighting some key points from our discussion:
Bullet-Point Summary of Our Discussion
Specific topics we discussed include:
- The importance of informing yourself before making vaccination decisions.
- The importance of homeschooling.
- How the government school system indoctrinates children into what I call “the state religion”.
- How I came to write The War on Informed Consent.
- How Dr. Paul Thomas’s patient data showed that his unvaccinated patients were the healthiest children in his practice.
- The importance of “relative incidence of office visits” (RIOV), the new measure that Dr. James Lyons-Weiler and Dr. Thomas developed in their study for comparing health outcomes between vaccinated and unvaccinated children.
- The hypocrisy of the Oregon Medical Board demanding that Dr. Thomas produce peer-reviewed evidence to support his alternative approach of respecting parents’ right to make their own informed choice about childhood vaccinations when the board itself could not produce such evidence to support adherence to the CDC’s routine childhood vaccine schedule.
- How when Dr. Thomas produced the evidence the board had demanded, showing how his unvaccinated patients were the healthiest children in his practice, the board ignored it and instead emergently suspended his license on the basis of demonstrably false pretexts.
- How doctors do not learn much about vaccines in medical school, and why Dr. Thomas started questioning what he had been taught and doing his own research to determine whether practicing medicine the way the government wanted him to was harming instead of helping his pediatric patients.
- Why the CDC’s claim that “Vaccines Do Not Cause Autism” is disinformation, and how the studies it cites to support that claim were not actually designed to test the hypothesis that vaccines administered according to the CDC’s schedule can contribute to the development of autism in children with a genetic or environmentally caused susceptibility; and how the CDC’s studies were rather designed to not find an association.
- How the entire “public health” establishment willfully and brazenly lied about the effectiveness of mRNA COVID-19 vaccines in furtherance of the policy goal of achieving a high vaccination rate with these experimental pharmaceutical products; and why it shouldn’t surprise us, therefore, that they also lie about all the other vaccines, too.
- How vaccines on the CDC’s schedule never underwent prelicensure clinical trials in which health outcomes were compared between vaccinated children and children who received an inert saline placebo and the government’s regulatory framework is designed to enable the pharmaceutical industry to conceal the true rate of vaccine-associated adverse events.
- Why the CDC has refused to do the type of vaccinated versus unvaccinated study that parents have long been demanding.
- Why the CDC’s recommendation for all infants to receive the three-dose series of the aluminum-containing Hepatitis B (HepB) vaccine starting on the first day of their lives is criminal.
- How the CDC’s schedule exposes children to excessive amounts of neurotoxic aluminum.
- How the experimental COVID-19 vaccines could not have received emergency use authorization by the FDA if the FDA were to acknowledge the availability of effective treatments, which explains its behavior like falsely describing ivermectin as nothing more than a “horse dewormer”.
- How the “public health” establishment’s messaging that there is nothing you can do to support natural functional immunity and everyone must instead get vaccinated reveals that the government serves the pharmaceutical industry and not the public.
- How there was a campaign of government-approved disinformation aimed at increasing uptake of COVID-19 vaccination, including the use of fear such as the big lie we were incessantly bombarded with that natural immunity to SARS-CoV-2 is weak, short-lived, and inferior.
- What “original antigenic sin” is and why its important to understand this detrimental effect of COVID-19 vaccines.
- How the varicella (chicken pox) vaccine has shifted the risk burden away from children in whom it is generally a mild illness onto the elderly, who are at higher risk of potentially deadly complications.
- Why the wrongful retraction of Dr. Lyons-Weiler’s and Dr. Thomas’s study showing the superior health of unvaccinated children was politically motivated and a decision made by the journal editors despite their failure to identify any actual problems with the study that would warrant such an extreme measure, and how a follow-up study proves that the pretext cited for the retraction was false.
- How my family was expelled by a pediatric practice for not adhering to the CDC’s vaccine schedule, and how I wrote a letter to the four pediatricians at the practice excoriating them for their extreme ignorance, which was matched only by their condescension and arrogance.
- How the Oregon Medical Board’s order to suspend Dr. Thomas’s license was characterized by arguments demonstrating its own cluelessness about the ethical practice of medicine such as accusing him of doing wrong by ordering measles antibody tests despite that practice being explicitly lawful and despite the fact that the second dose of measles vaccine is actually unnecessary for the vast majority of children.
- How, for another example of the board relying on false pretexts to suspend his license, they falsely characterized him as the pediatrician for a boy who was hospitalized with tetanus, blaming him for the fact that the boy was unvaccinated, which falsehood was then parroted by the media in spite of the fact the boy only became Dr. Thomas’s patient after he was released from the hospital—a clear illustration of how the medical board aimed to deceive the public.
- How someday when humankind becomes civilized, people will look back on our present era and recognize the policy of coercive mass vaccination as utterly barbaric.
- The importance of de-indoctrinating ourselves from the statist propaganda we were taught in the government school system and protecting our own children from this form of thought control.
Here is the graph mentioned from the study by Dr. James Lyons-Weiler and Dr. Paul Thomas comparing health outcomes between vaccinated and unvaccinated children:

Prior Interviews with Mike Leavitt
This was my fourth time on Mike’s show. Here are our previous discussions:
Additional Resources
Here is my book and a follow-up article on the wrongful retraction of the study showing that unvaccinated children are healthier:
Here are previous articles I’ve written on some of the topics Mike and I discussed:
Here is the series of articles I did on the superiority of natural immunity to SARS-CoV-2:
An overview of “original antigenic sin”:
I discussed problems with the varicella (chicken pox) vaccine in these three articles:
And here is the letter I wrote to the pediatric practice that expelled us for not adhering to the CDC’s schedule:



It’s encouraging that thanks to the COVID “vaccine” debacle a lot of conventional Big Pharma-trained medical doctors like Peter McCullough and Pierre Kory, who never before gave half a thought to whether or not the CDC’s entire childhood vaccination schedule was truly “safe and effective,” are finally waking up to the facts and publicly advising parents that it certainly is neither and should not be followed. No doubt the process is going to take a few more years to complete, but with any luck after the 2028 election we’ll finally have a President who is ready, willing and able to seriously reign in the entire “public health” establishment that has been systematically destroying Americans’ health for the sake of enormous profits going to the likes of Bill Gates and the owners of corporations like Pfizer and Moderna. It’s still early on, but I’m currently exploring the possibility of encouraging Tom Massie (https://x.com/RepThomasMassie/status/1795067223381299669) to run for President in 2028.
I have been impressed by Massie. Love the tweet.